Travis AFB

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 17 Oct 2008, 15:54

is there any way to move the tower without placing it as scenery? i'm thinking no. i'm using ez scenery and the default tower appears to be in bgl called generic-9D.BGL is this the correct way to move it?

VulcanDriver · Post by **VulcanDriver** » 17 Oct 2008, 15:56

I'd personally make a small exclude file, then use EZ to put it in the correct position if you wish.

John

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 17 Oct 2008, 16:39

Just a comment:
The issue with "towers" is people occasionally forget that there are both visual scenery components [which is the tower object you see when looking AT the tower] and "tower views" [which is a reference to camera position/player perspective, that is, a place from which you are looking].

In the case of the former, one can move/delete the scenery object if the library is editable and/or it's an EZ scenery/Instant Scenery bgl you are currently working on - or it's in an editable XML file (and a couple other coding related situations). Otherwise, as far as I know - someone will correct me if I am wrong, I am sure - you have a couple choices. 1) You can make an exclusion rectangle using something like Exclude Builder or within a AFX, ADE or a similar afcad program. In FS9, this can end up being either an exclusion bgl or an entry in the scenry cfg file. 2) You can make an "exclusion box" using an Instant Scenery "invisible object" which has been mentioned elsewhere in these forums. As was mentioned elsewhere, this is an object with "invisible textures" that is placed over the "offending" object to be "excluded" in order to make it seems as if the offending object has been removed when it really hasn't.

If it's "just the tower view", then afcad, AFX, ADE, etc. can be used to move or delete the location of the "T in a circle" which represents the tower view. (FWIW, there doesn't seem to be a limit on the number of tower views in an afcad.)

The distinction I'm making here is relevant because some airports/afcads have multiple towers and multiple tower views - think JFK with 3 towers. They can be treated completely separately but for accuracy/realsim, most scenery guys I have spoken with treat them nearly-simultaneously (fix one [the physical object] then fix the corresponding "other" [the camera view] or in the opposite order).

Feel free to ignore this post.

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 17 Oct 2008, 16:48

i've already made the exclude and moved the viewpoint, i just need to make sure that is the correct scenery bgl for the tower so i can move it.
is it generic-9D.BGL?

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 17 Oct 2008, 17:01

djnocturnal wrote:is it generic-9D.BGL?

To answer your question directly, I haven't got a clue.

With an exclude bgl or rectangle, I usually don't need to know the name of the bgl that the object I am excluding is in. The only reason I might want to know is if I are going to remove an offending object by disabling a scenery bgl - for instance, by renaming x.bgl to x.bgo so that you can identify other objects in that bgl. Then all objects within that bgl will disappear.

An exclude rectangle or bgl will only affect the objects within the coordinates relevant to the exclude itself.

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 17 Oct 2008, 17:45

i see what your saying, but i believe the only way i can move the tower is by excluding it and moving it to the new location. in order to place the new tower i have to know the correct scenery bgl that the default tower is in. for me it shows up in EZ scenery as generic-9D.BGL.

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 17 Oct 2008, 18:06

I understand what you are saying.

You're using FS9, right? I don't have FS9 installed so I can't check the bgl for you. Sorry.

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 17 Oct 2008, 18:12

Ford Friendly wrote:I understand what you are saying.

You're using FS9, right? I don't have FS9 installed so I can't check the bgl for you. Sorry.

yep, fs9.
all good man

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 22 Oct 2008, 04:09

This looks great. I'll always have memories of Travis too. I'll never forget Aug 1990 during the Air Expo C-5s were launching to deploy to Operation Desert Shield right in the middle of the airshow! The announcer identified that we would still see a C-5 demo further in the show.

By the way has anyone ever been able to get the 2 runways to operate AI flights simultaneously? I think there's always been an issue with the runways although parallel being too close together.

Keith

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 22 Oct 2008, 05:59

i cannot get both runways, i would love to know how tho if its possible.

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 22 Oct 2008, 06:33

flyerkg wrote: By the way has anyone ever been able to get the 2 runways to operate AI flights simultaneously? I think there's always been an issue with the runways although parallel being too close together.

One way to try to accomplish that might be to "plumb" certain parking spots to the second runway only. I've not tried it as my understanding/memory is that the primary runway is used well over 75% of the time.

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 22 Oct 2008, 06:59

I've done a few crazy things with AFCADs to get variable conditions that you will only see in real-life that Flight Sim will not allow. But you do have a good point on plumbing specific parking spots. I might tinker with it again.
Thanks!

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 22 Oct 2008, 07:43

I think, from what experience I have seen at Heathrow at DFW, AI uses the runway that is closest to the direction that it has come from. I have seen aircraft approaching from the north use the northerly runway in a pair and ones from the south use the southerly. Of course this assumes that the runway is open for landings.

For take offs the aircraft seem, generally, to go to the runway that is easiest for them to get too. This again is supposition based on viewing those two airports.

flyerkg · Post by **flyerkg** » 23 Oct 2008, 03:34

Yep, you have this summed up well. I could possibly flight plan AI to a waypoint that favors final approach to the desired runway first and trick AI to land where I want it to. This might not work on the reciprocal headings though.

Ford Friendly · Post by **Ford Friendly** » 23 Oct 2008, 04:07

Well, Jim Vile and others have definitely gotten multiple active parallel runways to accept simultaneous takeoffs and landings at places like LAX, ATL and others. I'd take a look at the coding in their approach plates if you are really interested - it's so far over my head, I don't even try.

And there's the "star" method - something about ATC treating runways less than 7 or 8 degrees different in heading as the same runway. Then you remove unwanted runways - by moving them to the North Pole region. Also over my head, but there're better explanations than I just gave around the net.

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 23 Oct 2008, 18:56

i would love to be able to figure this out, i have the KC-10's parked on the ramp right next to 3R but instead of using that runway they taxi all the way down to 3L.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 23 Oct 2008, 19:35

You can go and download an airport AFCAD with STAR in use and see how it works. Just a suggestion because I honestly don't know how to use it and I usually wind up deleting the "excess" runways to allow only one heading of runways operational.

Off the top of my head, William Morgan's Frame-Rate-Friendly studios KJFK Scenery AFCAD uses STAR.

djnocturnal · Post by **djnocturnal** » 23 Oct 2008, 21:28

from what i've read, all runways need to be the same length since atc will direct to the longest runway by default instead of using wind direction.

and this for star
1. The star degree offset between any 2 runways that you pair together cannot be greater then 7.9 degrees. Always add 7.9 degrees or less to the True heading in runway property's. Mag heading will update and change automactically.

2. The new visual runways MUST BE a minimum of 10 X 10 ft and closed on both ends (4 ticks) for T/O and Landing. Place the new runways anywhere in the world away from the airport such as the North or South Poles.

3. After the star is finished use the list dropdown menu in AFCAD2 (for FSX use ADE, AFX, FSXP) and look at all the runways. The new visual runways must be placed (drag) between 2 of the default FS9 runways. When you complete this step you must now re-name all the runway link lines (black) to the original runway numbers if the Utility does not do this automactically.

4. Make sure all active runways at the current airport are open on both ends and listen to ATIS which will check and tell you the fake runways exist if everything was done correctly.

By placing the visual runways at the North or South Poles all the AI Traffic arrivals will find an active runway at the airport and not a visual fictious runway. Based on direction and LAT/LONG of each active runway, ATC approach will vector User /AI Plane arrivals accordingly to your new paired or additional crosswind runway based on winds.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 24 Oct 2008, 00:32

The thing I dislike about the star method is that when you call up the airport ATIS, it still lists every single runway created in the airport list. That can be a long list sometimes.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 24 Oct 2008, 01:17

The thing I dislike about the star method is that when you call up the airport ATIS, it still lists every single runway created in the airport list. That can be a long list sometimes.

"ILS runway 04L, runway 04R, runway 01L, runway 01R, runway 10L, runway 10R, runway 22L, runway 22R, runway 13L, runway 13R, runway 31L, runway 31R in use, landing and departing runway...."

Been there lol....