White House adjusts to AF Programs

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 11 Mar 2009, 16:37

From AF Daily Report 11 Mar 09

Nightmare Scenario: The White House has purportedly given the Defense Department guidance to delay the KC-X tanker program by five years and cancel plans for a new bomber. CQ Today reported this March 9, citing sources close to the ongoing budget discussions for Fiscal 2010. It said this guidance is not yet the final word on what will emerge from DOD's $533.7 billion topline. Rather, this guidance is part of Office of Management and Budget and Pentagon deliberations over possible budget trade-offs. Still, it is alarming to see how ready some in the Administration are to dismantle the service's No. 1 acquisition priority by delaying KC-X significantly. And, it is equally disturbing to see the White House's willingness to scrub the bomber project. We're talking here about a new aerial tanker to replace a fleet of KC-135s built in the Eisenhower-era. Without tankers, global reach, power, and vigilance cannot be sustained. And, without a new bomber coming along near the end of next decade, the Air Force's ability to penetrate deeply into heavily defended airspace and hold targets at risk with a good-size load of weapons will fall on the backs of 20 B-2s.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 12 Mar 2009, 04:34

Well that sucks. Looks like the grandchildren of the grandchildren of the first B-52 pilots will be flying the mighty BUFF as well at this rate haha

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 12 Mar 2009, 07:44

What do you need planes for, as missiles can do everything.

No wait that was a crackpot in our country that said that!

GZR_Sactargets · Post by **GZR_Sactargets** » 12 Mar 2009, 16:54

Or UAVs as that seems to be the present trend. They always talk about Generals fighting the last war. But there also those who think about the future. You can't wave your magic wand and get fighters, bombers, and tankers immediately. There won't be the luxury of time to build new stuff as there was in WWI and WW2.

VulcanDriver · Post by **VulcanDriver** » 12 Mar 2009, 17:30

Firebird wrote:What do you need planes for, as missiles can do everything.

No wait that was a crackpot in our country that said that!

Check my sig

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 12 Mar 2009, 20:15

Ha ha, that's too funny that John has that exact quote already!

sprocky · Post by **sprocky** » 12 Mar 2009, 20:48

Have a look at our Navy. They bought used Orions from the Netherlands to replace the Atlantics. The interesting thing about those is that the Dutch used them to replace their Atlantic about 25 years ago!

And our Air Force is still a proud user of the F-4 (although their end is near

). The C-160 is not the youngest bird either. Except for the Typhoon and some helicopters we fly material other nations have scrapped already

At least there are orders for new equipment (A400M, Typhoons are on their way). But we do not have aircraft for the role the BUFF was made for and I doubt we will ever order some of that kind of a/c. The world would think we prepare for a next war

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 12 Mar 2009, 22:14

sprocky wrote:The world would think we prepare for a next war

Aha, so you admit that there will be a next one then!

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 12 Mar 2009, 22:24

Well that's what it took to get us out of the last "Great Depression".......

jetmax · Post by **jetmax** » 12 Mar 2009, 22:36

MIKE JG wrote:Well that's what it took to get us out of the last "Great Depression".......

and that is what scares me.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 12 Mar 2009, 23:32

MIKE JG wrote:
Well that's what it took to get us out of the last "Great Depression".......
and that is what scares me.

History repeats itself....

(Collection of old articles from the past 2 years)
http://www.mnweekly.ru/national/20080424/55325633.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2523131 ... setia.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -deal.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506843,00.html

Not saying this is the start of WWIII, but you never know. I can just envision my great great grandkids reading about the above posted events in a history textbook under the heading "The leadup to World War III". Not that they will be, but I can just SEE it in my mind lol

My predictions, for WHENEVER it happens:

Allies:
US
Great Britain
Germany
Australia
Netherlands
Poland

Axis:
Russia
China
North Korea
Iran

Choose to abstain from conflict:
France
Switzerland
Japan
Sweden

Unsure what they'll do:
Israel
Italy
Austria
New Zealand

Major events that will "kick off" the war:
*China invades Taiwan, US responds
*North Korea attacks South Korea for sympathizing with US
*Major Terror attack on the US
*Russia realizes this is their "chance" to take on the US, with Chinese support
*Eventually the new Axis forms

While it's a scary thought, I always enjoy making predictions about the future based on current events. Anyway, I could be completely wrong as I don't follow politics that much, just what I read (which I know is mostly hopped up) lol.

sprocky · Post by **sprocky** » 13 Mar 2009, 07:49

Be sure: before Germany will be part of the armed Allies France and Italy will have joined already. Although we may be one of the first to offer medical and logistical support.

@Mike:
A friend of mine wrote in school that this would help when the unemployment rate rose in the eighties. His teacher was shocked and he received a "6" ("F" in US) for his work.

But a war is not the solution everytime. Have a look at Iraq or Afghanistan. It did not push sales (maybe for gas or some military equipment). The reason for the raising revenues over the past few years where the Asian "hunger for civilization" and on the bankers side "I don't care about the risk" behaviour. Now the people can't payback their credits and can't even buy electronics or clothes which forced the Asians to close factories and reduce capacities. Oh yeah, it also reduced the Asian "hunger for civilization". Is there still anybody wondering about the current financial crisis?

BTW: I think it was foreseeable (is that an english word?). When the world's population growth is at 3% your economy can't grow 10-20% every year.

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 13 Mar 2009, 10:18

Yep but wait until the next Ice Age hits, all this will be the least of our problems.

Looking on the bright side if WWIII starts I think my concerns over finding a job will not be an issue any more.

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 13 Mar 2009, 14:36

Jan - foreseeable is the correct word, spelled and used correctly in context.

Well done!

Ron

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 13 Mar 2009, 14:40

LOL.....very true. I'm certainly not advocating a third world war, especially now that many nations have nuclear weapons and someone would slip up and use one and then that's the MAIW and everthing else on this planet.

To be fair we've completed derailed this thread from the original post my Marv so let's take this particular discussion elsewhere if we want and get this one back on topic which is that the Obama administration is starting to realize that the US Air Force is like that guy on your block that just HAS to have the latest most expensive gadgets.....

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 13 Mar 2009, 14:57

OTOH that desire for the newest and greatest and the mostest is founded in historical lessons. I was watching a program on The Pentagon Channel yesterday about Hap Arnold. The level of equipment we had on hand at the beginning of WWII was pathetic. Imagine what it was like for the guys at Wake and Midway that tried to defend using a few Bruster Buffalo's against modern Zero's, etc. Even the more modern P-40's were outclassed around the world. But back then we had the benefit of physical isolation to give us time to correct the situation before it was too late, but it was a real wakeup. Now a days, we have no time or distance buffer to overcome stupidity and false economy.

It might cost, but we should always insure that we have the best, and in numbers too overwhelming to challenge - as the surest way to discourage war is to be too powerful for anyone to want to start something. Beyond that, we need to be sure to weld that power in a responsible manner. No one needs or wants a big stupid bully!

Ron

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 13 Mar 2009, 16:26

OTOH that desire for the newest and greatest and the mostest is founded in historical lessons. I was watching a program on The Pentagon Channel yesterday about Hap Arnold. The level of equipment we had on hand at the beginning of WWII was pathetic. Imagine what it was like for the guys at Wake and Midway that tried to defend using a few Bruster Buffalo's against modern Zero's, etc. Even the more modern P-40's were outclassed around the world. But back then we had the benefit of physical isolation to give us time to correct the situation before it was too late, but it was a real wakeup. Now a days, we have no time or distance buffer to overcome stupidity and false economy.

It might cost, but we should always insure that we have the best, and in numbers too overwhelming to challenge - as the surest way to discourage war is to be too powerful for anyone to want to start something. Beyond that, we need to be sure to weld that power in a responsible manner. No one needs or wants a big stupid bully!

Ron

Well said!! (I love Hap btw lol)

It is very true. The big issue, as someone already stated is that it takes a lot longer to build an F-22A nowadays than it did a P-51 back in WWII. The problem with not being adequately prepared in today's world is that you can't mass produce the most technological war-fighting equipment at a fast pace anymore, there's just too much technology in it and thus god forbid a major conflict errupted we could be technically caught with our pants down.

Could you imagine it? A massive conflict where we technically have a technological advantage, but we're getting beaten only because of a lack of numbers. Ridiculous.

If nothing else mass-producing war-fighting equipment now, at a normal place instead of a war pace, would open up jobs to the economy.

MIKE JG · Post by **MIKE JG** » 13 Mar 2009, 18:16

That's the hard sell right now, with so many people out of work it's hard to justify spending precious dollars on things that we may or may not need.

However in that drive to produce those things, there come jobs and entire new industries along with them. Sort of a synergistic relationship.

BTW, Obama should take one flight on a KC-135. I think the smell alone would have him signing off on the KC-X the very next day.

Jumpshot724 · Post by **Jumpshot724** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:58

BTW, Obama should take one flight on a KC-135. I think the smell alone would have him signing off on the KC-X the very next day.

The flight I took didn't smell, what unit/model were you on lol??

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 13 Mar 2009, 20:22

Maybe the question should be what did you have stuffed up your nose that day?
It just might have been an aroma sensor brain interface issue.