FSX Battle of Britain

[John Young]

I'm curious about the Russian Spit. Is it an example of a WWII lease/lend aircraft? Should it not be a MkVb rather than a T2 and shouldn't the red star be on both sides of the fuselage and the wings too. Should all the RAF markings be removed?

Do you have a link to a photo of the aircraft?

John

[ConcordeBOAF]

THANKYOU EVERYONE!
G-RIFT is a fictional registration

[ConcordeBOAF]

I'm curious about the Russian Spit. Is it an example of a WWII lease/lend aircraft? Should it not be a MkVb rather than a T2 and shouldn't the red star be on both sides of the fuselage and the wings too. Should all the RAF markings be removed?

Do you have a link to a photo of the aircraft?

John

The Spitfire was a test, its not meant to be a real Spitfire. The first real one I will do is N3200

[ConcordeBOAF]

Intheory I can just make a copy of a texture, edit it and see a new Spitfire

[Firebird]

That is the theory.
However, using a layered paintkit will make it easier for you. For example the base cammo will be one layer, the stencilling, would be another, the dirt would be another and the final layer would be the serial number and code number so it is dead easy to churn out dozens in no time at all.

However, if you are making a copy of a texture then you can't make it available. The reason being is that it is someones work and you have no right to modify it UNLESS you get their permission first.

So in simple terms, using a paintkit to generate a scheme - perfectly fine to make it available.
Modifying someones released work - not acceptable and you can't release unless as stated above.

Hopefully that piece of info will mean that will avoid any problems.

[John Young]

It depends what it says in the Paint Kit Steve. In my kits for the past few years my first condition reads:

1. There is no need to ask before repainting, but I reserve the right to ask for uploaded files to be removed if I feel that the repaint, documentation or packaging is not appropriate. If in doubt please consult me first".

I would not approve of a red star being painted over the top of an RAF roundel on a fictitous paint on an historic aircraft for example. I would equally be a bit miffed if my original work, particularly when 98% of it remains in the repaint, is uploaded without any credit to me.

BOAF, N3200 was not a Biggin Hill aircraft. It was part of 19 Sqn at Duxford during the war. If you want 10 Spits already painted for that squadron they are in ACG AI Pack 2.

It might be useful if you could outline your ideas on what your Battle of Britain project will look like when finished. I know you want to use Biggin, Hornchurch and Coltishall and some German airfields and you want to use my Spits, Hurricanes and Bouchons to populate them, but how will the airfields look - will you remove the modern runways, Nav aids, control towers etc and what will you replace them with? Will you be looking to formation take-offs on the grass with AFCAD overlays? Where will the AI fly to?

Tell us how you think this will look and we can make suggestions that might help you. I'll make one to start with. Forget about Biggin Hill and Hornchurch and the modern London skyline in the back ground. Would Manston and a couple of the south coast airfields be better?

Or, have I got this all wrong and you are not intending a historic package but a modern scenery package with historic aircraft? Either way, going back to my first point, if you want to paint my AI aircraft and upload them (the paints not the models), what you do has to be credible.

John

[Firebird]

It depends what it says in the Paint Kit Steve. In my kits for the past few years my first condition reads:

1. There is no need to ask before repainting, but I reserve the right to ask for uploaded files to be removed if I feel that the repaint, documentation or packaging is not appropriate. If in doubt please consult me first".

I guess that goes to show that I haven't read your paint kit docs, but then again as I haven't used them - I am in the clear.

[ConcordeBOAF]

It depends what it says in the Paint Kit Steve. In my kits for the past few years my first condition reads:

1. There is no need to ask before repainting, but I reserve the right to ask for uploaded files to be removed if I feel that the repaint, documentation or packaging is not appropriate. If in doubt please consult me first".

I would not approve of a red star being painted over the top of an RAF roundel on a fictitous paint on an historic aircraft for example. I would equally be a bit miffed if my original work, particularly when 98% of it remains in the repaint, is uploaded without any credit to me.

BOAF, N3200 was not a Biggin Hill aircraft. It was part of 19 Sqn at Duxford during the war. If you want 10 Spits already painted for that squadron they are in ACG AI Pack 2.

It might be useful if you could outline your ideas on what your Battle of Britain project will look like when finished. I know you want to use Biggin, Hornchurch and Coltishall and some German airfields and you want to use my Spits, Hurricanes and Bouchons to populate them, but how will the airfields look - will you remove the modern runways, Nav aids, control towers etc and what will you replace them with? Will you be looking to formation take-offs on the grass with AFCAD overlays? Where will the AI fly to?

Tell us how you think this will look and we can make suggestions that might help you. I'll make one to start with. Forget about Biggin Hill and Hornchurch and the modern London skyline in the back ground. Would Manston and a couple of the south coast airfields be better?

Or, have I got this all wrong and you are not intending a historic package but a modern scenery package with historic aircraft? Either way, going back to my first point, if you want to paint my AI aircraft and upload them (the paints not the models), what you do has to be credible.

John

OK, sorry about the test Spitfire. Thats where I need help. I want the Spitfires/Messerchmitts etc to fly around Dover. All the modern stuff will be removed. I would like to use ALL the BoB airbases and have it as a historic package in a historic scenery

[ConcordeBOAF]

Right so, here are the British airbases. John, Do you think that you, Firebird and Tranquil could help me with this?

[John Young]

Sorry BOAF, I know exactly where RAF Fighter stations were in WWII. What I want to know is your vision of how they are going to look and how the AI will operate in FSX should you complete the project. If we don't know where you are going with this, we can't help you get there or steer elements in a different direction if we think that might work better.

Just take your time and think it though and then tell us in some detail what you want to achieve.

John

[ConcordeBOAF]

I will get all aircraft at a station take off at the same time. I`m editing Middle Wallop at the moment

[ConcordeBOAF]

John, could you make me a basic C-Type hangar to use in this project?

[John Young]

Slow down, slow down, slow down.

Spend a few days and think trough what you want to achieve and how you think you might achieve that. Convey that back to us in more than 2 sentences. I'll give you license to use half a page. I have at least 15 questions to ask you at the moment, so please try and anticipate them so I don't need to ask them.

I have a C type hangar, but you don't get it until I know how it's going to be used.

John

[ConcordeBOAF]

OK, what I propose to use the hangar for is to add it to all of the British sceneries. I want to be able to `travel back to 1940` in FSX. Please tell me the 15 questions so I can help you to understand what I want to do.

[Trevytt2004]

BOAF,

What you are trying to achieve of going back to the 1940's really...is impossible as youd have to disable every airfield in the default UK scenery. This in itself is a very laborious task, then to have period looking sceneries with a hangar duplicated on lord knows how many airfields across the south of England.
This type of project is fraught with problems and not advisable until you have several years of understanding simming under your belt.
What id be more tempted for you to look at is utilizing existing scenery that may be available on places like avsim and the like...learn how to install those....properly understand scenery layering so that can atleast help remove some of the modern stuff and then start to learn tools like afx...ade...aifp3 etc.
you will learn how ai aircraft interact with the surroundings and how to create flightplans to get things up in the air. then you can look to make things more complex...but I sincerely urge you to slow down....when greg and john and anyone else asks questions...try to reply as clearly as possible. the team here is fantastic, but we are not mind readers and we are also not magicians....well... not always.

Please also try to slow down with how many threads you post to as they all seem to be on the same or similar topic and this can become very frustrating to all trying to assist.

all the best

Trev

[ConcordeBOAF]

I completely respect what Trev says. Perhaps taking it all back to 1940 is a bit of a crazy idea. I do, however, think that if we worked as a team and each did separate parts that we could make this. Do you agree John, Trev, Tranquil and Firebird?

[Trevytt2004]

…...…...…..Lord us all....

[ConcordeBOAF]

I completely respect what Trev says. Perhaps taking it all back to 1940 is a bit of a crazy idea. I do, however, think that if we worked as a team and each did separate parts that we could make this. Do you agree John, Trev, Tranquil and Firebird?

My point is, it would help you all to understand my knowledge and ability in scenery and AI design

[Tranquil]

I dont mind doing the odd repaint if needed but i think as you pointed out it is a crazy idea, John is just starting to gather information for his next big project so im sure he wont have the time to be working on this it will just slow down his next masterpiece and none of us want that, without sounding to harsh you are punching far to high for someone with your experience, yes we all start from scratch and learn but start from the basics and work your way up at a slow pace then you will enjoy this hobby more!

Fantasy is a part of reality, but we take the breaks off. We're thinking clearly, yet not thinking at all.

Much thanks

Mark

[Firebird]

We get your point. I get the feeling that you don't get the points that others have made.

Lets start at the basic level of what we think you want. If you want to recreate the RAF BoB airfield structure you have to start at the first point. How big of an area are you wanting to cover?
Do you stop at 11 Grp? Go to 12 Grp, or even 10 and 13 Grp.

Now you see what is meant by when John asks about what exactly you want. The reason is that the bigger the area of coverage the more of the base FSX scenery, and we are talking towns, cities and structures need to be removed from FSX.
So once you have removed it you then need to add in scenery, i.e the original sized towns and cities etc. This is not an easy feat. land mapping is an art and skill of its own, even if you have the original data to go from.
Next we move on to the airfields. You have to build every airfield from scratch using ADE or some other tool, even if you don't add scenery. because initially all of the airfields were totally grass with grass runways. Do not get fooled by the scenes from the BoB film of Duxford. If you want an airfield to be like the original you again need info on its setup to be able to produce even a simple facsimile.

Now finally we come to the rallying call to arms. We appreciate your confidence in us but we must tell you that what you originally envisaged is way too big a project even for our expertise and believe me when I say that we have had a decade plus experience each.
Even if everybody had the skills and time to do what you want nothing else would get done here. No new aircraft would be produced by John, no new fdes would be produced by myself, Tranquil's paint projects would be severely hampered even for somebody so prolific as him.
We haven't even touched the remapping work and the scenery work which would be outside the scope of the people you mention.

Oh and if we all did agree to do this by the time it would be finished P3Dv16 would probably have been released for Windows 14.

This in a nutshell is the crux of the problem with your very grand and worthwhile idea.
Here we do not do stuff for anybody that asks. we help out on projects that we fancy doing, and can manage, our main goal is to help people so they can do things for themselves if they wish to learn particular skills.

In short if you have a project in mind you can ask for peoples help and suggestions to achieve this but people are not going to do the work for you. We will not give you fish but we will teach you how to fish.

Now rather than wipe out your enthusiasm I do have a suggestion for you.
Start small. Choose one BoB airfield and build that. Then Fill it with aircraft, then plan them, then do the same for a German airfield at Pas-de-Calais. You will in essence you will have created a mini battle.
I believe, as do the rest of us, that only then will you really appreciate the truly massive scope of the work and time involved in your idea.
I also have an idea for you airfield-wise. It would be a good idea to start with an airfield that no longer exists so that you don't have to wipe out areas of habitation and can start with a fairly simple ground polygon and can build on that.
The two that immediately spring to mind are North Weald and Kenley. Both very famous BoB airfields.

Initially you may be disappointed in the size of what i am suggesting but the beauty of it is that once you have done one from each side you can scale the whole thing up as big as you want to take it. Think of it this way. Once you program one flightplan in and out of a base you can create a flightplan for a wing of 72 aircaft. What you don't do is start trying to program 72 aircraft.

Take some time to think through what I have suggested and then let us know what you would like to do.