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Windows 7 problems

Use this forum to discuss technical issues related to the operation of your computer. Graphics, Hardward, Software, settings, etc.
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TimC340
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by TimC340 »

Firebird wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 15:50 Wow, that is a serious RAM hog if you are thinking of going to that.

I did hear stories about MSFS and its RAM requirements and I was prepared, and still am, to go to 32GB. For me at the moment it has not been an issue even once. Like Tim says that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future.
One thing that could be a factor is the RAM on your GPU.

On my RTX3080 there is 10GB, and according to Task Manager it can utilize up to 8GB of shared memory as well, i.e. PC RAM. So it could be that the GPU RAM is the reason that I have had no issue. Something to bear in mind.
Undoubtedly GPU RAM is relevant. I'm currently using an AMD 5700XT which is roughly equivalent to an NVidia 2070/3060 with 8GB onboard RAM. The higher 30-series units are without doubt superior overall, and some have more RAM. The 40-series units (incoming) will make all of that irrelevant with even greater VRAM. But the point is that improving software demands improving hardware. If you're in a position to spec your hardware, go for the highest spec you can - even beyond what you think you can afford.
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Firebird
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

Absolutely, Tim.
I wasn't aware of the card you had but the 8GB GPU ram is a good total. You are correct about specs and it should be something to take into account. I have seen the specs for an alleged RTX 3090ti Super card which is supposed to have 24GB of VRAM. Insane amounts for an even more insane price.

One of the troubles with computing is that what is the best spec at the moment will be the lowest spec you can get in 18 months. This is where it then becomes a money game, I believe, in getting the best value for money at the time you buy.

What you need is hardware that will go the longest without the necessity to replace it. If the highest spec now is the lowest in 18 months then a middles spec now will not even be available then. At the moment the biggest factor for PCs is the PCIe bus and the ability to use NVMe (M.2) drives.
You can't insulate yourself completely for the future. All you can do is build in some wiggle room. If you get the top spec motherboard you can give yourself that ability to get performance increases without junking everything and starting again.
You can use use your gen 4 M.2 drive in a gen 5 or 6 motherboard quite happily and in the future replace it with a gen 5 or gen 6 drive to get double or quadruple the transfer speed. The same goes for GPUs. The latest cards will work happily in a gen 4 motherboard but with a gen 6 board you can use series 40 or maybe series 50 boards.

The subject can be a constant balance between what can I get now and what is coming later this year. Each person has to make their own choice as it is their money. As I said before I dislike telling people how to spend their money, I would rather explain the range of options and leave it to them to make the final choice.

In one way John is lucky. The PC blew up so there is no debate about waiting or not. You need a new one now. Getting the best spec motherboard and biggest power supply you can gives you the best room for improvement. You need new ram but the drives you can transfer over. Any upgrade decisions comes back to timing/choice/money conundrum.

Your point about software driving hardware is still as relevant today as it was 30 years ago. I remember that there was a space fighting game (can't remember the name) that when it was released nobody had the cpu power to run it properly. That was 30+ years ago. Closer to hand we all remember that nobody could comfortably run FSX when it was released.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by TimC340 »

I have another desktop in my garden office which is based on an old Gen 6 i5. The motherboard is an ASRock MiniITX museum piece, but the GPU is a 1080Ti, which means that the computer can run P3D perfectly well for most purposes. It's amazing how much difference a decent graphics card can make - which reflects the fact that they are significant computers in their own right!
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

Absolutely, right. The 1080ti is still a very good card even for MSFS.
That was what i was looking for, initially, but second hand ones were going for £900 at the time and you have no idea if they have been thrashed in bitcoin mining either.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by flyboy »

I am only using MSFS2020, have had only 1 CTD since I bought it when it came out. My system specs are:
Window 11 Pro (have been using 11 since Beta)
ASROCK Z390 Pro4 motherboard
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz (Looking at 5GHZ processor)
Nvidia GEFORCE GTX 1660 with 6GB OC memory
64GB DDR4 Ram
Corsair Airflow Case (water cooled)
1TB SSD (dedicated to MSFS)
260GB M2 dedicated to system
500GB M2 (GTA5)
2TB Hybrid drive (Games)

I built this system hoping it will last and keep up with the new games coming out. I feel it best to over build than under build a computer system.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

As a general rule you are correct in that you should not build just for what you need now but what you might potentially need. The difficult thing is building in potential expansion whilst maintaining a reasonable level of cost.

Someone that I used to work with upgrades his PC every 18-24 months with the latest specs. He never comes close to fully utilising his system whilst paying top dollar for the latest spec. Madness.

My friend that goes online with me in MSFS has a GTX1080ti and it does seem that the card is ideal for the sim at the moment. We both agree though that in a couple of months when DX12 and DLSS comes out for it he will start to miss out of performance levels just due to the latest GPU standards.
The trouble is that it is not easy to get the current standard GPUs especially at cost price. He would like an RTX3080 but getting hold of them is particularly difficult.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by flyboy »

I got the GTX1660 off Amazon for about $250.00 and it works great for all my games (Battlefield 2042 etc.) I started with a basic computer and slowly (over 2 years) upgraded it to what it is now. Hopefully I can keep it updated with new graphics cards, processors without replacing the whole system.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

That is indeed the ideal.
The biggest hurdle these days seem to be the motherboards. They are limited to certain CPUs. You want a new CPU you have to change the motherboard. You want a new motherboard you have to change the CPU.
You change the motherboard, you change the ram to take advantage of the motherboard.

As I mentioned before it does seem that the next big movement is in graphics cards that can take advantage of the speed of the 56th/6th gen PCIe slots. These will use a lot more power, so your PSU will in all likelihood need to be changed.

I did change my case this last time and I was surprised to find that most do not have external bays to take things like DVD or BluRay drives any more. it did limit my choice.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by flyboy »

Steve, that's the reason I went to a water cooled system. Faster processor more heat, more cards more heat. I would be scared to go to 5ghz processor without water cooling.

I am looking at graphics card to buy also. Because of the bitcoin collapse they are predicting a surplus of high end cards, lower prices and great availability. I am hoping they will be under the $300 mark.

I agree what you told Vulcan Driver about the M2 slots. My operating system is much faster and more stable on a M2 drive.

I am considering a 4TB (7200rpm with 256MB cache) hard drive for expansion of games. i found one on Amazon for $106.
The 2 TB hybrid drive is only 5400rpm.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

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I found the 5ghz Intel processor for $319 on Amazon.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

Yes, cooling is one area that I am keeping an eye on for the future.
At the moment M.2 drives are definitely helping keeping the inside of a machine decluttered and therefore cooler but with the way things are going with the PCI bus versions it can become an area of concern again. GPUs themselves are containable at the moment although I appreciate that you can water-cool them as well, my friend water-cools his 1080ti, but if they are using that much more power to generate the speed then it could easily become an issue.

When i was looking into the M.2 drives I read that gen 3 drives did not have a heat problem but as soon as you got a gen 4 drive in a gen 4 slot it was almost mandatory to apply heat-sinks to them.

The one thing you can safely say about IT is that it is constantly changing and you have to keep an eye on it.

On the GPU side of things it is still unclear. My friend thinks that he will go straight to an NV40 card but i am not sure that they will be out later this year. My reasoning is purely that Nvidia spent so much money on R&D for the NV30s that they have to make a profit on it somewhere. The chip shortage and manufacturing issues that have plagued the industry have severely hampered them. My feeling is that the next gen boards will be held back until they at least cover their NV30 development costs plus can ensure no supply issues going forward.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by VulcanDriver »

Here are specs for my new PC.


Intel i7 11700K 8 Cores 16 threads 5Ghz

Coolermaster ML280 Mirror 280mm AIO Liquid cooler

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16gb DDR4 Ram (2x8gb 3000Mt CL15)

Palit GeForce GTX 1660 StormX 6Gb GDDR5 PCI-Express

Biostar Z590GTA Motherboard (ARGB Control, 2 M.2 Slots, USB 3.1 Type C, Gen 4.0 PCIe

USB Expansion Card 6 sockets

Intel 9560NGW dual channel AC WiFi and Bluetooth 5.0 module

500Gb Western Digital SN850 PCIe 4.0 NVME M.2 SSD C: drive

3 Samsung SSD 1Tb, 2 x 500Gb (D: E: F:) all for flightsim. D: FS9 / P3D, E: FSX , F: FSFS

550W Fully Modular 80+Gold Power Supply

ABKONCORE Helios 500G ARGB Tempered Glass Case

Windows 11 Pro

Cost about £700
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

Well that should keep you going for a month or so :) .

In all seriousness, if it meets your needs now, plus a bot of wiggle room for the future then you should be fine.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by VulcanDriver »

Luckily I've a contact local to me who can get upgrades at cost. Should have it up and running by the end of the month.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

You could build it yourself inside two days. I understand that you might not be confident enough, if if that is correct then feel free to play safe, but there are loads of tutorials and guides online.

Like most things in life - it is your choice. Don't be forced into it if you don't feel comfortable. if you would prefer to wait and have it done by somebody else that is fine.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by VulcanDriver »

Just waiting to get the money together to buy the bits. I'm waiting for an overpayment to be refunded in a couple of weeks that will pay for it. HMRC are still calculating last years tax for my tax refund
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

It is nice when you can get the tax man to pay for stuff.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by VulcanDriver »

Certainly is. He's also paying for android head unit for my car.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by VulcanDriver »

Starting on the new build. The disk controller chip on my old PC's motherboard had failed hence the weird SSD reading.

Anyone know where I can buy FSX Gold CD ROM from? Not stocked by Amazon although the Acceleration upgrade is.
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Re: Windows 7 problems

Post by Firebird »

I am surprised that the Acceleration pack is still available.
Have a look and see if the Steam version is compatible to your needs. Quite often they will have a reduced price for it.
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