P-3, Revisited

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 01 Feb 2007, 20:52

I totally agree.

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 01 Feb 2007, 21:41

Looking very good.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 01 Feb 2007, 21:43

aerogator wrote:I had to post a couple of shots. ...

You decided to make the looking through cockpit anyway?

mikewmac · Post by **mikewmac** » 01 Feb 2007, 21:45

aerogator wrote:I had to post a couple of shots. "Majic Mike's" FDE has got it flying now . still working on the top cockpit windows and the nose gear doors look a little big. Many other small things and of course, no textures

BTW Mike, I haven't seen any rough landings. May be because I added the gear compression feature .

Jake,

I had been able to smooth the landings out a lot after that last model upgrade that you sent me and hopefully your latest gear compression changes have helped even more. Please send me the very latest model so I can test it out and make any additional FDE tweaks that might be appropriate.

Thanks,

Mike

ronniegj · Post by **ronniegj** » 01 Feb 2007, 21:47

Oh Yea OOOOOOh Yeeaaaaa!

Ron

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 01 Feb 2007, 22:57

Thanks guys.

@Mike OK, I'm going to do a few more quick things first like rework the gear door animation.

@Rip Pip Pip I'm working on that. Thanks for reminding me. There's still a million little things and some big ones too. When I saw it taxi, I saw that one of the nose wheels still had an off-center axis

among other things.

We're weighing in at around 6400 polys at this stage (ACM) which seems kind of heavy but I've got about 10 of Mike Stone's P-3's sitting on the ramp at KNIP to the tune of about 21,000 ea w/ no LOD's, so I guess its not too bad.

swp53 · Post by **swp53** » 02 Feb 2007, 10:09

Hi Jake,
Having no experience with modeling, I am wondering how much extra work would be involved in a couple of modifications to your base files for the P-3.

Aero Union have 8 Water Bombers, from the picks available it appears to be the MAD boom is removed and there is a under fuselage pannier.

The Airies Version again having the MAD removed and the housing along the top of the fuselage.

Regards, and looking forward to the model when finished.

Steve.

P.S. Have not found any flightplans for Spanish P-3's out of Moron AB so will write some myself and post them when finished.

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 02 Feb 2007, 12:15

Hey Steve, Thanks for your comments. One of the reasons I was so interested in the P-3 in the first place was its water bombing role. As far as ease ofmodifications goes, I am looking at modifying the rear of the fuse... don'think that will be much trouble. And the MAD boom is a separate part. The pannier may require a complete mod to the fuse, however, to get it to blend right. Some p-3's have sensor 'bulges' underneath anyway so thats going to have to be done at some point to some extent. This is all somewhere down the road at this point. Right now I'm concerned with getting the basic dimensions right

and the shapes right.
Thanks for you're interest, stay tuned...

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 05 Feb 2007, 16:49

OK guys, wanted to show you what 'Majic' Mike's been up to with the smoke fx. And one of an approach at KNIP.

Can anyone help with the Fowler flaps? I used a tutorial I found but these flaps seem to move differently. Also the tutorial said: 'make nec. adjustments to the .cfg file' but didn't say what to adjust

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » 05 Feb 2007, 17:12

Great progress there, Jake. Apart from the flaps what else do you still have plans to do ?

Don H · Post by **Don H** » 06 Feb 2007, 19:23

Haven't been able to check in in quite a long time.

Really looks good, Jake. Nice work.

Don H · Post by **Don H** » 06 Feb 2007, 19:24

Haven't been able to check in in quite a long time.

Really looks good, Jake. Nice work.

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:22

Thanks, Don

Thanks, Don

Got the fowler flaps working

. Here are two shots showing about halfway down and full. Still don't know the exact sequence but I've got them coming down and going back at the same time thruout the lowering process. Super Bee maybe you know how they come down? Also put in a few protuberances. I think every plane has a different set of antennas

. Also as you can see, the bottom of the outer nacelles shows up in the flap well...I'm working on that. I'm going to try the wires next to see if they look realistic. Some I have seen look like huge cables as you get farther away

.

I think we're getting pretty close. I've checked the dimensions as best I could and redid the outer nacelle's to match the inner ones better.

Mike, I'm sending you the latest model with the fowler flaps. It dosen't seem to affect the landing any but I'm sending it anyway.

Still no textures guys...

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 07 Feb 2007, 11:35

aerogator wrote:Thanks, Don
Still don't know the exact sequence but I've got them coming down and going back at the same time thruout the lowering process. Super Bee maybe you know how they come down? Also put in a few protuberances. I think every plane has a different set of antennas

1. Four settings
- Up
- Maneuver
- Take-Off / Approach
- Land

Going from Take-Off / Maneuver to Land is where they flip down(fowler effect) If you need the degree positions I can get. Brainfarting and can't remember 'em off the top of my head (only refer to position, not degree, The gauge is in % down, not degrees, have one sitting here on my desk

Maneuver is at 40% down, Take-Off / Approach is at 75% down) just flipped thru NATOPS and it don't mention degrees either. I want to say Approach is 18 degrees, 40 degrees for Take-Off / Maneuver, and Land is 60 degrees. Let me check for sure.

2. "protuberances"

yes, it is almost safe to say no two are alike. Its crazy Some are actual decorations(from systems removed), some new, some used from older systems no longer used/removed. The only real difference you need to worry about is when going from a baseline (which can be used for the non-AIP aircraft to the AIP aircraft, to the EP-3E, and off to the other countries that fly the P-3, There the thing is Canada's CP-140 and the Aussie's aircraft have the squared off wing-tips like the EP-3E. They have a different ESM system than we do.

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 07 Feb 2007, 13:28

Thanks, Super Bee

. I think the flap info will be helpful. Although the only time an AI a/c uses flaps will be on approach and landing so I'll have to make some kind of compromise I suppose

.

I was wondering about the squared off wingtips, but I hadn't noticed which particular birds had them. We will probably have to decide on a set number and position of antennae for the base model. Can you come up with a good compromise? Also, I have no good pics of any of the antennas. Is this something you can help me find?

Do all 'C' models have the wires?

Thanks much

,

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 07 Feb 2007, 17:43

aerogator wrote:...Although the only time an AI a/c uses flaps will be on approach and landing so I'll have to make some kind of compromise I suppose ...

MAIW AI planes can do more

:
see here - "Visibility condition XML and animated take-off flaps": http://www.militaryaiworks.com/forum/vi ... highlight=

aerogator · Post by **aerogator** » 07 Feb 2007, 18:58

Thanks Rysiek. I remembered that about the time I hit the 'submit' button

. I have reworked the flap animation to have more positions between up and down; about 12 I think. I am also studying what Steve said about flap deployment so when the time comes to write the XML, maybe we can do something special.

BTW, that link does not work for me.

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 08 Feb 2007, 04:07

Jake,

I just came across a word doc that is a P-3 Walkaround, was put together by VP-30(The Training Command) It has some pretty good pics of the different P-3 models and antennea locations. Problem is the thing is 39MB, and password protected... So can't break it up into smaller sizes, email it, or take the pics out of it, sans going around the long way and taking screenies of the pics LOL. Will start it tonight when I get home, should be able to post pics tomorrow, or at least start posting pics. They should give you a good idea of where to put 'em, and what they look like.

Follow-up on the Flap degree settings:

1. Up - 0 degrees
2. Manuver - 10 degrees
3. Take-Off / Approach - 18 degrees
4. Land - 40 degrees

Not knowing, how are flaps triggered on an AI Aircraft? Just wondering, Because, unlike airliners, we taxi around with flaps in Take-Off / Approach. This is for emergency egress, allows you to be able to slide off the wing easier.

As far as the Longwires. Yep all regular P-3C's have 'em and all in the same place(except for Korean P-3C's) The port longwire is the longer of the two. When/if you get into doing the different models other than the Charlie model, we can address the longwires again.

For those that don't know they are HF Antennea. There are two HF systems. One longwire per system. For the "Doglegs" on the EP-3E they are that way becasue they have three HF's, instead of two.

RipPipPip · Post by **RipPipPip** » 08 Feb 2007, 09:58

aerogator wrote:...BTW, that link does not work for me.

Ouch!
That means that you're not nominated as a true MAIW modeler ...
It looks that you don't have access to the private XML forum.
Shouldn't we correct this, you Admin guys?

P3_Super_Bee · Post by **P3_Super_Bee** » 08 Feb 2007, 10:56

Went quicker than I thought, Don't know what I was thinking really LOL Anyway here are the pics from the walkaround...

All the Aircraft pics are of a P-3C AIP... There is a line drawings of the P-3C UIII-P and the P-3C UIII-R at the bottom along with a little of what an AIP has that an UIII don't. For the USN P-3C Family for AI, You only really need two models the UIII don't matter if a R or a P and an AIP. Most people won't notice the slight antennae differences between the UII, UII.5, and UIII-P, & UIII-R they we still fly.

Also to try and help with a little labeling confusion...

For the Update III aircraft there are two types a Production (P) and a Retrofit (R). Production as you can imagine come off the assymbly line as an UIII, so they are UIII-P. The retrofits are older model aircraft that were upgraded to UIII standards. So as you can imagine, a AIP Retrofit is an aircraft that was first upgraded to UIII standards then to an AIP. A plain ole AIP is a UIII-P aircraft that was updated to an AIP. Clear as mud? LOL

Another thing, by looking at the last slide, it seems that the UIII doesn't have any SATCOM (Batwing) Antennae. An UIII actually has one. It would be the foward Batwing on the top of the fuselage, the aft Batwing and the ones in the National Insignia, aren't on the UIII

P-3, Revisited

P-3 Variants